To say that I am dazed and confused about Ohio Senate Bill 5 is putting it mildly.
I don’t think I have ever heard such venomous rhetoric about a single topic in my lifetime.
Both sides of SB 5 are engaged in a shouting match of hyperbole that's totally lacking in clarity and reason.
Trying to get to the truth about SB 5 is pretty much a lost cause. I looked up the entire bill on the state of Ohio’s website. The bill is 304 pages long and filled with government bafflegab. I tried very hard to read the bill but soon gave up the ghost.
I tried reading all the comments about SB 5 on North Canton Patch but was bewildered by the lack of sound arguments and reason on both sides.
Patch readers on both sides of the argument seem more intent on degrading the other side rather than giving the facts in a civil manner. Most of the comments made by both sides made me so upset that I had to reread my last . Most of the people leaving comments left me feeling that they were doing little more than venting.
As a retired public employee, I feel assailed and reviled on all fronts, so I thought I might offer my view for what it is worth.
When I went to work as a draftsman for the city of Canton, Ohio, in 1966 at the whopping hourly wage of $1.75, I did receive generous fringe benefits. 1966 was a time when the Ferguson Act governed the employer/employee relations of government employees in Ohio. Basically, public employees in Ohio in 1966 had no rights whatsoever. At that time government employees were not allowed to collectively bargain for anything. Nor were they allowed to join unions or strike. The ability to get a job in government was pretty much dependent upon political connections except for a few technical employees at a time when the world of government affairs was a pretty much a low tech enterprise.
What most people lose sight of is the fact that almost all of the fringe benefits that many people feel excessive were already in place at a time before government employees gained the right to unionize in 1983. In 1966 sick leave of 15 days a year was already in place. The vacation package given to public employees in 1966 was good, but really not any better than private companies I have worked for.
Comprehensive health care at the time was known as “hospitalization” because it only covered a trip to the hospital and not office visits. The all inclusive form of health care that we know now evolved slowly, because in those days it was cheaper to offer public employees fringe benefits instead of wage increases. The big jump in health care coverage came about in the late '70s and early '80s when state and local governments attempted to head off the union movement by trying to bribe public employees into not forming unions by offering extra fringe benefits. Almost all of the fringe benefits that certain politicians and voters feel are excessive were already in place before government workers became unionized. Once those of us who worked for the city of Canton became members of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) we saw very little increase in fringe benefits and only moderate wage gains. Once we became unionized, government employees and our political leaders assumed the position of adversaries; a position that only lead to conflict.
At the time of my hiring in 1966, my employee contribution to the Ohio Public Employee Retirement System (OPERS) was 8.5 percent: much higher than employee contributions to Social Security. The disparity between employee contributions to the two systems has narrowed a little, but public employees in Ohio still pay a larger share of their wages to OPERS than workers covered by Social Security pay into the Social Security system. The current contribution rate is to OPERS is 10 percent and this is where I am concerned with statements made in a TV ad by Gov. John Kasich. In the ad, an indignant looking Kasich says in a rather harsh voice something to the effect that public employees should be required to pay 10 percent toward their retirement. I am not sure if I am missing something here or not, but maybe his writers should do a little fact checking since nearly all public employees are paying 10 percent or more. But both sides are remiss in bringing retirement benefits into the quagmire surrounding SB 5. Those retirement benefits and contribution rates are being addressed by two bills currently in the Ohio legislature: House Bill 69 and Senate Bill 3, which are currently on the back burner awaiting the outcome of the war over SB 5.
Contributions toward the cost of health care is another point of contention between proponents and opponents of SB 5. Almost everyone I know including myself is contributing more and more toward their health care and I can see nowhere in SB 5 where the bigger issues surrounding the state of health care in the United States are being addressed.
But I think the biggest issue confronting people of reason is the attempt to take away the right of public employees to negotiate in good faith with their employers. Or should I say the representatives of their employers for I always felt that the citizens of the city of Canton and not the politicians were my true employers. If this right is taken away we risk going back to the era of cronyism that marked the years before 1983. I am not a fan of unions: They never really did anything for me except pocket my union dues. But to arbitrarily take away their right to bargain in good faith is a step backward. Most reasonable people in the United States see the need to reform our society’s excesses. Making the public employee the scapegoat for the problems that were created by politicians will not solve the situation. Sure, we are all mad about the current state of affairs in the United States. I like most people am mad as hell at both of our political parties; but taking away the rights of public employees will not do much to solve our problems. Our problems can only be solved by all Americans coming together to work as a unified people to solve those problems.
Ted Kennedy loved the unions too. He loved to make a strong National Labor Union Board. He loved all the alphabet soup of deductions and requirements, which most people never understand, the onerous additional costs to the employer, the matching funds or direct pays for unemployment benefits or employer mandated contributions. But when it came to taking money out of his own personal pocket, rich man that he was, he hired an illegal to mow his grass. And that is where we are headed. There will be no recovery in Ohio because no companies will come here. Those that are here will begin to move to South Carolina, or Kentucky. And we will begin to see how it worked out so well for Greece. When unsustainable meets no money, lay offs are the only outcome. Massive layoffs. And they protest to get them. DUH.
I don't know what your references to Ted Kennedy, right to work states where you have no rights,and Greece were about but you are lumping issues together which gets confusing here.
To say that you can buy caring personnel or have unlicensed doctors or unqualified staff is an insult to those currently employed in these places. I know them, and they will tell you they made their choice of employment, not because they were the bottom tier in their classes, or failed the exams to get their certification, but for a host of other reasons. You are saying the unions failed them again so SB5 won't change that.
Why do I think it is skewed to have the employees be the boss? I see first hand the difference between the union shops and the places where the employers sets standards. At Metro, we all cheered the firing of a bad employee, only to have the union reinstate her 2 weeks later because there wasn't enough offical complaints in her file. So we all documented her behavior - her dangeous behavior at the OR table- only to have her sue the hospital, receive 2 years back pay, a settlement, and come back to work because she was 'targeted' by stuffing her file with real complaints. I've had nursing assistants sleep all night and tell me they're union protected them. Their job of monitoring urine samples from druggies was another revenue source for them - we had men test clean for drugs but positive for pregnancy! And they couldn't be fired. Not every teacher is Teacher of the Year, but under the current system, that person would get laid off while some dottering old bat keeps their top pay job. The system is broken. The money was spent by Strickland, not Wall Street. Stop the hysteria and start the process of fixing. Vote YES on 2 &3.
Unions don't EVER get rid of employees, no matter how bad they are. And when I talk to union members, they always admit there are those they have learned to carry the load for, or to desk jockey. Heck, in NY State, they have entire buildings where lousey teachers go and fill out the cross word puzzle at 6 figure incomes. And sadly, the system will turn around, retire them and hire them back. Joseph, I pray we can afford your choice the day after the election, when cities will really start reducing forces, you know, like the commercials portray, but it will be because they are being broken by seniority staffing and outlandish benefits. Bless you Joseph because I believe you are a real and good, but wrong, man.
Clearly, they recognized that the final version of the bill is NOT a "small tweak" to current practices and sought to amend the bill (again, DAYS before the deadline to have it on the ballot and MONTHS after refusal to budge and hear the thousands of protesters right outside their doors) once polls were released that showed it's likely failure in November. The admission by those that bullied the legislation through committee and the general assembly that SB5 is overreaching, is enough reason alone to vote it down.
My comment: This was also true in Washington DC. when Michelle Rhee was told, when she was trying to fire certain underperfoming educators, "you can't fire them per the union." Rhee said, "What do you do with them to get them away from the students". The answer, "We send them to the administration buildings." Rhee, with political backing at that time, was able to clean house, close down wasteful buildings and help the actual education of the students, this all to the chagrin of the unions. But, in 2010, the unions convinced the public to elect a different mayor and thus Rhee had to resign. We'll see if the programs will continue in that district and if student performances can continue to improve as long as the things she helped start continue. It's sad that certain groups can have so much power and convince so many to vote in a way that benefits those groups financially no matter the future costs. It's all about sustainability. No, we can't just tax more to provide even more services. At some point it becomes unsustainable and people lose jobs no matter if it's in the private or public sector. The public sector continued to grow in the last years while the private sector declined. Now, jobs will be lost with or without SB5 and unions will be unhappy either way.
The Unions refused to come to the table when Strickland was Governor. That was why he commissioned a study to determine how to deal with the tsumani of debt coming due. It is always good election policy to spend and look like you are doing something but Ohio was hemorrhaging jobs, companies were moving out, and our brain trust, the youth, were going with them. It wasn't Wall Street that bankrupt us, it was people who made purchases beyond their means. I asked my son, when he was looking at rental property for an investment, Are you going to get a Varitable Rate Mortgage. He said, Mom - they VARY the rate. DUH. But those that wouldn't know how to change a light bulb without calling the landlord were buying with no money down. Let's be honest about where the problem started. And the banks were originally forced to make those suicidal terms because Sen. Dodd and Rep. Frank were squeezing them in the banking committees. It will be the public service employees who eventually suffer, when their promises made are found to be empty. If we make real committments, ones we can honor in the future, we all have a future to share. Mayors are looking to keep good employees but are stuck with the contracts!
As for the quotes? I wouldn't quote anything if it weren't an actual statement. Batchelder's lament was in most any publication in Ohio in late August. I'm not trying to slander anyone, I'm trying to prove that he knew what a mess this was going to be. I believe this because I interpret the quote, given the context of being coupled with the "request" to sit down with union leaders a week before the ballot deadline (without the assembly even in session) and over six months after the bill's introduction, to indicate his (and their) regret at pushing SB5 through the general assembly. In fact, when asked if the bill might have gone too far, Batchelder ALSO said, “my sense would be that there were alternative ways to do it," and if he was willing to call members back in session to repeal the vote, "whatever we have to do to get it done."
http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2011/08/18/news/doc4e4c20017f73a575628240.txt?viewmode=3 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/17/ohio-governor-offers-to-compromise-on-bargaining-l/?page=all
At 2:50 in the following video, Batchelder even admits, when asked if there are points within in the bill that his "side" could have wiggle-room with, that there are. Where was this wiggle room during the months of getting the bill passed and why be so desperate a week before the ballot deadline to remove said parts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saYm-DGMfjs What kind of governor says "we need to break the backs of organized labor in the schools," as reported by the Star Beacon in Ashtabula? The labor that educates Ohio's children and remains organized to fight for optimal learning environments for Ohio's children? Remember people-- a teacher's working conditions are your child's learning conditions. http://starbeacon.com/local/x343701395/Kasich-promises-county-won-t-be-forgotten-if-Republicans-regain-control/print
I read all the moaning and groaning about how horrible it will be but the same things were said in Wisconsin. Thank you Ohio for not being the over the top nut jobs they were in Wisconsin. Some poor soul committed suicide when that law was upheld, only to find out the health care increases were less than the union dues! People want to pretend that all the DEMOCRAT big city mayors are out to rob and rape the firemen and police. Really? Major Jackson in Cleveland is going to unfairly find some of the best workers and canning them just for spite? Because that is exactly what you are saying. Or is it only the R's who want to cause rape? We are getting raped - financially. And it is time to stop. Vote Yes. Stop the union chokehold on our cities.
get behind me in line.
As for Cynthea, I'm pretty sure you are ignoring my references for quotes that you had a problem with before, but choose to respond instead by resorting to the common rant that I'm pretty sure most of us already realize and understand--that the economic setup of the last few decades can not sustain us at its current state. That, however, was not the topic at hand. Then again, I'm not sure if Cynthea's responding to me or not because I didn't refer to anything about Mayor Jackson (much less any other mayor), despite her claim that "that is exactly what" I am saying. I also would've chosen different verbiage in the last few statements, but again, to each their own I guess!
This discussion started with SB5 and Confessions of a Retired Employee but it about the Yes or No vote on the ballot for Issue 2. Nothing can match the imagery or blantant deception from the ads we see or hear every day. Our hospitals will have no one in the ER to treat us? Rubbish, because if you look at the posted comments, it says the State of Ohio can't compete with the Cleveland Clinic on the level of professional hired. Well, pardon me but NO S^^T SHERLOCK. Facilities for the poor and disadvantaged should be adequate, and clean, and have legal staff levels but in the open market, people are going to pay for the upgrades. Fireman won't be there? Police won't be there? When they get LAID OFF because there is NO MONEY then they really won't be there. That is the rhetoric that needs to be addressed. Not me repeating Joe Biden's hysteria. I am going to make sure I find every safety force reduction and send it to that useful idiot woman.